Working at Amazon as a software engineer

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In This Episode

What is it like to work at Amazon as a software engineer? Dave Anderson spent over 12 years at Amazon working closely with engineers on his teams: starting as an Engineering Manager (or, SDM in Amazon lingo) and eventually becoming a Director of Engineering. In this episode, he shares a candid look into Amazon’s engineering culture—from how promotions work to why teams often run like startups.

We get into the hiring process, the role of bar raisers, the pros and cons of extreme frugality, and what it takes to succeed inside one of the world’s most operationally intense companies.

We also look at how engineering actually works day to day at Amazon—from the tools teams choose to the way they organize and deliver work.

We also discuss:

The levels at Amazon, from SDE L4 to Distinguished Engineer and VP
Why engineering managers at Amazon need to write well
The “Bar Raiser” role in Amazon interview loops
Why Amazon doesn’t care about what programming language you use in interviews
Amazon’s oncall process
The pros and cons of Amazon’s extreme frugality
What to do if you're getting negative performance feedback
The importance of having a strong relationship with your manager
The surprising freedom Amazon teams have to choose their own stack, tools, and ways of working – and how a team chose to use Lisp (!)
Why startups love hiring former Amazon engineers
Dave’s approach to financial independence and early retirement
And more!

Takeaways

Topics I found especially interesting in our conversation:

Amazon’s engineering levels: these go from L4 to L10:

L4: Software Development Engineer (SDE) 1
L5: SDE 2 (mid-level engineer at many other companies)
L6: SDE 3 (senior engineer at many other companies)
L7: Principal SDE
L8: Senior Principal SDE
(No L9!)
L10: Distinguished Engineer

Both autonomy and oncall are a given. Teams get to decide how they build things and what tech stack they use – and they are also responsible for oncall. Pretty much all engineers at Amazon are oncall for their team’s services on a rotation.

Outages are taken very seriously – more so than at most companies. For SEV-1 outages (the highest severity) is common for VPs of Engineering or even SVPs to join in on the incident call. There is usually then a separate call for managers and individual contributors (ICs). This is extremely rare at most other Big Tech companies – and it shows how much Amazon cares about customer experience and operational excellence.

The “Bar Raiser” is a pretty unique concept in Amazon’s hiring loops. The “Bar Raiser” is a very experienced interviewer who usually did 50- 100+ interviews and completed Bar Raiser training and signoff. They are the only one in the hiring loop – outside of the hiring manager – who can veto hiring decisions. The goal of this role is to ensure that all hiring loops come to fair decisions, and to avoid rookie hiring mistakes.

Amazon’s engineering culture makes it easier for engineers to move to smaller startups – which is rare across Big Tech companies. At many other large companies, moving from Big Tech to a startup can be a big shock – as Big Tech usually has lots of internal, custom tooling, platform teams to support engineers, and so on. At Amazon, however, most engineering teams are already run like a startup, use AWS infra, and embrace the frugality value. Transitioning to a scrappy startup is usually much easier because of this – and it could be a reason why startups also like hiring from Amazon, and ex-Amazon engineers do well in smaller companies as well.

An interesting quote from the episode

Gergely: I see so many Amazon people go to either large tech companies — like Google, Meta, OpenAI — and they do pretty well there. But they also go to startups and they do pretty well there as employees, not just as founders. Why do you think this is?

Dave: When you get down to a dev team, like I loved the fact of like almost everything is controllable at the lowest possible level. Everything from stupid (or awesome!) changes people can make. You have a lot of control!

Every individual dev team can pick their process, can pick their coding language, can pick how they're deploying their code, like what tools are going to use. Sometimes you can do it to the point of stupid!

There was a team that built their whole very important middleware like service in Lisp. What were they thinking? Why? No one else knows the damn language — and no one else has written anything in Lisp and like. Two engineers on the team had this great idea, wrote the service — then both transferred off the team. And then the tean had to rewrite the code because no one knew how to support it. And it was this nightmare — but the point was that they could!

So teams would regularly build stuff in whatever language they want and whatever tool set they want at whatever pace they want:

They can do agile

They could do waterfall

They can do Scrum — or they can not do sprints

They can do what they want!

I liked the fact that unless there's a strong reason for something to be dictated by Amazon or a VP or a Director — for the most part the culture was: ”You can't tell me what to do.”

The Pragmatic Engineer deepdives relevant for this episode

Timestamps

(00:00) Intro

(02:08) An overview of Amazon’s levels for devs and engineering managers

(07:04) How promotions work for developers at Amazon, and the scope of work at each level

(12:29) Why managers feel pressure to grow their teams

(13:36) A step-by-step, behind-the-scenes glimpse of the hiring process

(23:40) The wide variety of tools used at Amazon

(26:27) How oncall works at Amazon

(32:06) The general approach to handling outages (severity 1-5)

(34:40) A story from Uber illustrating the Amazon outage mindset

(37:30) How VPs assist with outages

(41:38) The culture of frugality at Amazon

(47:27) Amazon’s URA target—and why it’s mostly not a big deal

(53:37) How managers handle the ‘least effective’ employees

(58:58) Why other companies are also cutting lower performers

(59:55) Dave’s advice for engineers struggling with performance feedback

(1:04:20) Why good managers are expected to bring talent with them to a new org

(1:06:21) Why startups love former Amazon engineers

(1:16:09) How Dave planned for an early retirement

(1:18:10) How a LinkedIn post turned into Dave’s weekly newsletter: Scarlet Ink

Note: for this episode, I decided to not add a summary. It was getting confusing to have both the summary and timestamps. I’m opting for somewhat longer takeaways, looking ahead.

References

Where to find Dave Anderson:

• X: https://x.com/scarletinked

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scarletink/

• Newsletter:

[Scarlet Ink

Tech industry career and leadership advice from an ex-Amazon GM and Tech Director.

By Dave Anderson](https://www.scarletink.com?utm_source=substack&utm_campaign=publication_embed&utm_medium=web)

Mentions during the episode:

• Inside Amazon's Engineering Culture: https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/amazon

• A Day in the Life of a Senior Manager at Amazon: https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-senior-manager

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• What is a ‘Bar Raiser’ at Amazon?: https://www.aboutamazon.eu/news/working-at-amazon/what-is-a-bar-raiser-at-amazon

• AWS: https://aws.amazon.com/

• C: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_(programming_language)

• Netflix on AWS: https://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-studies/innovators/netflix/

• The Pulse #76: Why are layoffs coming hard and fast, again?: https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/the-pulse-76

• Agile: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/

• Waterfall: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/project-management/waterfall-methodology

• Scrum: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/scrum

• Lisp: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_(programming_language)

• Bezos Academy: https://bezosacademy.org/

• The Amazon Leadership Principles - A Complete Interview Guide:

[Scarlet Ink

The Amazon Leadership Principles - A Complete Interview Guide

Disclaimer: I’m not representing Amazon in any way with my posts, opinions written here are strictly my own…

2 years ago · 91 likes · 2 comments · Dave Anderson](https://www.scarletink.com/p/interviewing-at-amazon-leadership-principles?utm_source=substack&utm_campaign=post_embed&utm_medium=web)

• Mr. Money Mustache’s blog: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/

• Mad Fientist: https://www.madfientist.com/

• The Simple Path to Wealth: Your road map to financial independence and a rich, free life: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30646587-the-simple-path-to-wealth

• Notable Internal Systems at Amazon: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/amazon-notable-systems/

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Working at Amazon as a software engineer – with Dave Anderson

Dave Anderson, formerly Tech Director at Amazon, shares an inside look at Amazon's engineering culture—from hiring and promotions to team autonomy and extreme frugality.